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Pretty disgusted...

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Pretty disgusted...

...with a few guests that contacted me through WS. This is just a rant really.

A group of three contacted me, who were really a pair with a tag-along. I couldn't offer a bed for the night as we had a three-day old baby, but I offered secure storage of bikes for two nights for the pair and three nights for the tag-along.

Ran all three to and from the train station, fed the couple, took them to the supermarket, met them for coffee the next day and helped them adjust their route to France (Newhaven-Dieppe rather than Dover-Calais). Ordered them a spare tyre too seeing as I have a fixed address.

For the tag-along, I repaired two broken spokes, trued wheels, aligned disc brakes and replaced a rear gear cable and sent them off with a spare.

Is it unfair of me to expect some feedback after this?

I've declined a couple of requests before this due to know being around but this experience isn't really pushing me to host again.

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Easier feedback system needed!

After reading Chris's post, I realized I haven't given feedback for my last trip, nor have my guests given me any feedback (no hard feelings, I understand that cycling is about cycling, not about giving ratings!). But upon further investigation, giving feedback is less than easy! It's also something that I'm not likely to remember to do after my trip without a reminder. Can WarmShowers borrow some feedback ideas from AirBnB? It would be super if the host and/or guest could indicate that an interaction has taken place, and then both parties get send reminders about providing feedback.

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Air BnB

AirBnB knows when you have made a reservation. It is confirmed. And they take your money! There is a huge trail of contacts with AirBnB. WS, on the other hand, has no idea who has actually been confirmed to guest/host. FEEDBACK is the ONLY way we have at guessing how many actually shared hospitality interactions we have on the site.

It is an important metric (although not accurate/reliable) for us, and it is also the way we communication to others in the community! So, ALWAYS LEAVE FEEDBACK.

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giving feedback not easy?

really? you get on their profile and click on the "provide feedback" tab, it brings up a few screens to fill in. done.

in the past 3 seasons I have given feedback about every guests who has stayed here, even to the extent of making sure I have given feedback for each person's profile, even if they are currently paired up with someone. I would say that feedback given about me is provided about 2/3 of they time.

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I'm not sure how much time

I'm not sure how much time has passed since their stay but in my experience its not uncommon for a few weeks to pass before receiving feedback from guests (certainly, looking at their profile they seem to have a good record of leaving feedback to previous hosts).

As for tag alongs, if someone can't be bothered to spend half an hour setting up a profile for a stranger to invite them into their home so that they are accountable for their own behaviour through their own feedback, my response tends to be along the lines 'thanks, but no thanks'.

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I'm more of the group that

I'm more of the group that get things done immediately so they don't get forgotten, but I know I'm just in a touchy mood.

It's more the tag along that has annoyed me; they do have an account and I know they've stayed with a few people since travelling down from Scotland. I enjoy working on bikes so it was a pleasure to help at the time but a bit of public thanks in order to guide others my way (given the number of dormant accounts) wouldn't go amiss. It's meant to be a community after all!


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What price gratitude?

Did he thank you personally? I mean, if someone warmly thanks you and is appreciative of your efforts, then I think you need to ask yourself why that isn't enough.

Feedback online is a nice thing to receive. I've always enjoyed mine. It's good also because other people see it and it increases my social capital. It's good for the ego.

I think perspective is needed here. "pretty disgusted" seems like a disproportionate reaction to something which ought to leave you feeling mildly irked. Maybe they will leave feedback. I sometimes have forgotten about it until weeks later. Maybe it's hard to get to a computer or their smart phone died. It could be that they'll leave feedback in a while. It could be that they never do.

Being on this forum has been chastening for me. I expect nothing from my guests. If I get feedback, great. If I don't, fine. If somebody passing through Aberdeen chooses not to seek out my hospitality based on whether or not I've got loads of feedback, then that's their misguided choice.

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Most people in this thread

Most people in this thread appear to be missing the point. Leaving or not leaving feedback is not about altruism or gratitude. It is about communication. Altruism and gratitude are great things, but it's communication amongst members in a community like this which ultimately is what makes it work.

Like it or not, leaving feedback (however simple) is a responsibility. It communicates to the rest of the community that you had an interaction and whether or not it was positive. It is also going to be an important part of the new web design rolling out later this summer.

And the reality? It takes more effort to leave a post in the forums here than it does to leave a simple piece of feedback for either guest or host.

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Host expectations

I have missed a few feedbacks in my time but I always catch it later. On the road there is a lot to deal with but one out of the three should have remembered. No one wants to feel used. On the other hand, I have stayed in 43 states and three Canadian provinces and left 100% feedback. The feedback from hosts has been about 35%. It may be my deodorant but I don't think so. I am always invited back.

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I hear you

Several of my BEST guests have not left me feedback. But it is about giving freely and not expecting. Never go out of your way for a guest if you think you will later build a resentment towards them. Never loan them money or transport them if you have expectations; yo are only setting yourself up.

I have gone above and beyond for over a hundred guests and had very few experiences like what I offer when I have been hosted. Expectations are not what WS is about. It is about a safe port for the night and a shower.

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I think it's nice to get

I think it's nice to get feedback.

Often within a month, if they haven't done one... I'll send them an email asking them to write.

I know when I'm on the tour, you've got a lot of other things happening and easily forget.

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Asking for feedback

I really like to have feedback from all guests but as you know it doesn't happen. I have three guests who have not and am tempted to ask for it but it feels awkward to do so. What do you say? And do they then do i?. One has only used me and one used just another one so it may not at all be on their radar but the other should know better. All three were treated royally as all my guests so I know it's not an issue. Really, I don't need it. I just like to have a permant record of all guests.

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Advance FB

I like to give FB at the first contact ( ie by email or App etc) as an "advance" [ to be revised later if necessary]. As a Guest, I always give FB to theHost as the last thing to remember before I leave those WIFi .... BTW : I havebeen toldNOT togive " advance" FB , by WS Management , but I think it's a really GOOD idea- even if it's " in front" of usual procedure. FWIW: it's nocoincidence I am the longest serving WS member in my countyry ( 19 years)

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I'm in complete agreement

I'm in complete agreement with the OP. I've just had the same experience though perhaps i didn't do quite as much you did. I think a lack of feedback represents an utter lack of gratitude and frankly i think all guests should be grateful unless they've been mistreated by their hosts.

I've just learned that warm showers will prompt the other party once you have left feedback and i'm considering trying this but first i want to get confirmation from warm showers that if i leave postive feedback and they guest still doesn't respond, then i can change it to neutral. Damned if i'm giving positive feedback to someone who can't be bothered to show any gratitude even when given a reminder. All the more so now that they are at home and have no excuse.

I can't believe there's a poster here (above) who has never given feedback. Don't people appreciate how this system works. Furthermore, some guests are flat out expressing much thanks in the normal fashion.

What did you do in the end Chris?

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Ademàs de gratitud que se espera con un simple comentario, es para fortalecer la comunidad WS, pues el huèsped puede tener garantia de llegar a un lugar seguro¡¡

Besides gratitude is expected with a simple comment, it is to strengthen the WS community because the guest can be guaranteed to get to a safe place¡¡¡

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I think giving feedback is

I think giving feedback is easy- just a couple of clicks and dropping a few, where's the problem? I always give my guests feedback because I had only great experiences...but- some guests did not give me feedback, which I find a bit unfair. I mean, okay, it might be tricky to give feedback while on the road. But once you're back home it would be decent to show a bit of gratitude, wouldn't it? Just my two cents... :-)

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"But once you're back home it

"But once you're back home it would be decent to show a bit of gratitude"

You shouldn't confuse feedback with gratitude. After I leave, I always send my hosts a "thanks for hosting!" by private message to show my gratitude. However, the feedback system is supposed to be about letting other members of the community know whether the member in question is safe, and how the amenities that he/she provides are. And there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with leaving feedback, in spite of their immense gratitude to the host. For some, it is because it feels weird to rate another human being (perhaps a new friend) as if he/she were a good or service. For others, such as myself, being active in other hospitality-exchange communities without any feedback system at all shows that profile feedback is not especially important (and, indeed, may be more trouble than it’s worth.)

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Its not a rating like a

Its not a rating like a number out of 5. If they've had a good time what could possibly make them uncomfortable about saying so publicly. I find your response weird Christopher.

Anyway I certainly would appreciate public feedback especially if no other form of appreciation has been shown.

Gosh when i'm on the road, and someone offers me anything, i'm extremely grateful and express it. I've had many fairly insalubrious beds to keep me safe in places like India, foody treats in outback Australia and so on. Anything one person does for us as cyclists is occasion to express appreciation and on this site, a little positive feedback goes a long way.

Guests should be happy with everything they are offered so long as they feel safe.

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I think that I was probably a

I think that I was probably a little zealous over the guests who approached me for the stay; they left feedback after a couple of weeks so I was probably impatient.

Still nothing from the third (tag-along), though they have left other feedback. Maybe it's just me seeing as I also went off on one and posted a thread.

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Chris, can't believe you didn't receive some appreciation..

As a bike fixer, I would probably have helped them in a similar fashion. Sucks to not get glowing feedback, and maybe some money up front for your expert efforts, which helps the biker continue the journey.

Don't give up on the 2 wheeled humanity out there, because of that sour experience. Keep the tip jar handy, next time...

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With all due respect, this

With all due respect, this thread is starting to really depress me. I can only assume that your guests were duly grateful on-site, in person, to your face. Despite today's sad emphasis on digital ratings and relationships, we are still humans and live in a human world. If ratings are so important to you, ask for them directly. In fact, make a computer available while you do your repair work. It's fantastic that you are so willing to help; as a non-mechanically inclined person, I would be deeply grateful. In person. I probably would never think to leave you a review unless you asked me to do so, because I simply don't have that sort of mindset. I've hosted several wonderful people, cooked for them, opened my house to them, sent them on their way with baked goods...I even still stay in contact with some. Yes, I realize our community is built on trust, which everyone now seems to think means having good reviews. But no one gets a review until someone goes out on a limb and trusts blindly. Our community is built on human relationships, exchange and shared experience. Let's drop the emphasis on reviews and keep it human. If someone really sucks, they ought to be flagged. But sorry, reviewing the people who generally become my friends is just unnatural.

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The thing is Erin, when you

The thing is Erin, when you sign up to this site, and read all the information provided for new members you are encouraged to provide a review. You are told what is expected of you as a guest and that at least used to include leaving feedback. This is how the site is set up to work. If you don't want to follow those guidelines don't but be prepared to read how upset hosts feel about it when someone doesn't make a tiny effort to give public feedback. And also be prepared for many hosts to get sick of it and close their accounts.

Its really a very small effort to make on the part of the guest. I think its the least one can do. If you can get it together to find yourself a host you can get it together to provide a review. The onus shouldn't be on hosts to have to ask for it either.

You probably came to warm showers from another site where people are more casual about reviews. Some people who write in the forums seems to think that they should all operate the same. I don't think that's necessarily so. I think the review system is good. It shows respect and appreciation in a public way and that is good.

You are on holiday when you tour so take a little time to to say thanks even if that's not actually the explicit purpose of the review. Its makes the host feel good. And why shouldn't you do that. They spent a fair bit of effort looking after you when you were their guest.

I've only had four guests on this site but i've had some from couchsurfing too and most guests don't do anything to express thanks. A public gesture like this is so small and totally free. Just do it. I"ve only ever had one guest bring something to share. I don't mind if they don't do that but given this genearl lack of generoisity on the part of guests, i think a bit of feedback is so little to hope for.

If you don't mind when guests don't do it for you that's your call but you should do it for your hosts. The more people do this, the better the system will work. the less people do this, the more likely it is to close down their accounts as more and more hosts get sick of the lack of appreciation for their efforts.

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Andrea, I totally agree with

Andrea, I totally agree with you!

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Thanks, Erin, for being

Thanks, Erin, for being another voice from this perspective. I also feel that rating new friends is weird, and many of my own guests have said the same (along with "it’s not worth taking so seriously", another way of looking at it that I consider valid).

The increasing complaints about lack of reviews here on the forums is a sign of trust breaking down, for a number of reasons that happen to hospex networks as they grow, age, and centralize. When there is trust, there is actually no need for feedback or even profiles. (Some of the most dependable and closeknit hospex networks are just lists of names and e-mail addresses or phone numbers – WS was like that once). Once trust has broken down, just being a polite guest is no longer enough: guests have to walk on eggshells to avoid complains from the cantankerous people you see here on the forums, and even if you follow their personal interpretation of feedback, they’ll just find something else to complain about. It may be that WS is finished as a community of members who all share the same values and expectations, and there is room for new connections between cyclists to arise elsewhere.

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I'm not sure if it's a sign

I'm not sure if it's a sign of trust breaking down, that would be to assume that the members concerned understand the feedback system as primarily a trust and safety measure whereas from the subtext of most of these discussions it seems to me that (positive) feedback is viewed more as some kind of public badge of honour (I'm reminded of what happened to vouches on CS) given that its absence seems to be inexcusable regardless of whatever gratitude has been expressed face to face.

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Interesting perspectives, ( terrible Thread title..)

no wonder this page is so hard to navigate( with Titles like that ...but I digress...)

Go Andrea....with you 100 %

As a Host, or even as a Guest, I like "..some kind of public badge of honour.." to quote Paul Harper, above...

IMO, FB for Guests and Hosts is one of the several factors that keeps WS going, and if you don't give it, you are a "leaner' not a "lifter".

For me, increasingly, a member *not* giving FB to other members will be a contra-indication in future.

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Lack of feedback

Leaving feedback difficult? How about writing a thank you note and sending it to the host in the mail? Now think about how difficult it is in comparison to simply write one's appreciation on this website. It was not too difficult for the cyclist to contact and solicit help in the first place, was it?

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"Now think about how

"Now think about how difficult it is in comparison to simply write one's appreciation on this website"

For about the thousandth time, James, feedback is not about showing one’s appreciation. It’s about giving the community some information about the member so that others can decide whether they want to interact with the member or not. If hosts want appreciation, then it’s great when guests send them a thank-you message after their stay or even a nice note through the post, but that’s not what feedback is for.

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I host only members who have

I host only members who have sent feedback to others.

Of course there are people who have never used WS. So I give them an opportunity: I host them and tell about my principles.

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I like what Rolf wrote and I

I like what Rolf wrote and I agree with this.

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Pitching a tent ...

... is way more difficult and time consuming than leaving feedback.

Yes, I always leave feedback ( 3 day delay was my worst, I believe) as host or guest.
Yes, I am pleased when I receive (nice) feedback (in return)

BUT: mostly we are dealing here with repeat hosts or guests. Personally 3-5 feedbacks suffice for me to evaluate the new person/s I am about to meet. Additional feedbacks are nice so I can get an idea of how involved the other person has been in the past, but they don't serve the purpose of making an informed decision about hosting or asking for a stay.

Not the feedback, but the way someone says Good-bye is an indication of how thankful they are.

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People cancel without letting you know and keep you waiting

Actually I am thinking that some fee involved would make people more reliable. I have been doing Airbnb and people cancel sometimes also, but not like, they don't appear at all and don't even tell you.
I have been waiting twice for warmshower guests who didn't appear and I am already fat up. I could have rented the room with Airbnb easily.

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Pretty common

Funny thing is I am not really a fan of feedback systems, small numbers or negative reviews really go to my heart. But I'm on my busiest year, had 40 guests so far this year, and only one has bothered with feedback. So I get your frustration, better none than negative I suppose.

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I always inform my guest about the importance of feedback, and STRONGLY encourage them to do so. (When local friends and family who host come over and have not left feedback,I sit them down and have them get up-to-date before I feed them!)

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Had two girls from WS last night, used one of my campers, pleasant girls from Virginia. Of course no feedback, and while some may wait a while to do so, it made me laugh when because of these topics I looked up their WS profiles. One of them had been reviewed by 6 hosts, all pleasant. But neither girl has reviewed one person they have stayed with.

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Sense of Community

I don't think I would host a member who did not give feedback. Feedback isn't just for the host, as it communicates to the entire community. It takes a lot less time to give a feedback note than it does for a host to take you in. make the effort!

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Did you ask for feedback?

Did you ask for feedback? Was it discussed and you let them know that many hosts would really like to have feedback? They likely don't know. It is voluntary to provide it. Nothing compels a guest to give it.
I have hosted many times without feedback. Some people only use the app and some wait until they get home and do feedback for all of their hosts. I do try to bring it up and many have been really surprised that it is an option. Granted, they were all new to Warm Showers.
I try to leave feedback fairly soon after the stay and sometimes that has prompted a person to leave their own feedback. Honestly, I think a lot of the guests think that the feedback is more one-way so that other hosts are warned of guests who may be a problem or can confirm that a guest is okay.

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Asking for feedback

I personally think anyone who can use an app or WS website is probably internet savy enough to have been around feedback, stretching back on about any subject for the last twenty years at least. Pretty much every site does it. I would be perfectly happy if they disabled the system, but when you have one I think it's just human nature that people want positive feedback. I think thats at least partly why no one leaves negatives hardly ever. I received 4 stars out of 5 from a gentleman the other day on an RV campground site; which is really funny since even in his review he admitted he couldn't find the place. But I've also been slammed by people occassionally for exactly the same reason.

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